(Brian)
…?
Well, I’m sure I have. I mean, not intentionally. Although I suppose I’ve done that too. I mean, who doesn’t? Nobody’s perfect, right? It’s not like I’m proud of it or anything, but stuff like that happens.
…?
(Pause) People you don’t know, I suppose that’d be the first thing that comes to mind, you’d think. Because, well, you don’t know them and so you don’t really care about them, and they don’t really mean anything to you. (Pause) But it doesn’t work that way, as it turns out. (Pause) That’s the strange thing about it, and if I’m gonna be honest about it — you’re not using my name, right?
…
Okay. Well, it turns out it’s the people you’re closest to, is what it is. I know that sounds strange, and I wish it wasn’t like that, I really do. Why would you want to hurt the people you love? I mean, why should we end up hurting the people we care about? That’s crazy, isn’t it?
…
I understand that. And I guess that makes sense. I just don’t know how what I have to say is gonna help anybody.
… …?
Well, I can remember this one time, this one time when I had this sudden realization that, like, oh no, I’d turned into my parents! Not that my parents were bad, don’t get me wrong. They weren’t bad people, just … Well, I told myself, I had told myself, I wasn’t going to do that when I was a parent, you know what I mean? That won’t be me! And then, bam! I find myself doing that. The exact same thing. And I thought to myself, holy shit, I love my son, I really do, why can’t I just be patient with him, you know? He just wants me to be patient with him. It wouldn’t take much more than that on my part. It’s not really all that much to ask. I know that. I know that. And still … then I lose it. Oh, it’s nothing serious. I mean, I never hit him or anything like that. But I swatted him, you know, a spanking, when I thought he needed it. I don’t think that’s inappropriate. I think too many people have gotten away from that. And I think maybe one time I kicked him. Not that hard, but still. That’s not right. I admit that. Christ, what was I thinking? And after I, it was after I kicked him, you know? After I kicked him, I thought, Jesus Christ, what are you doing? You told yourself you would never do this. Ever.
…?
I think he cried. I’m sure he did. And it wasn’t because it hurt. I mean, the swat on the butt, the kick on his butt, that didn’t really hurt him. I didn’t kick him that hard. Honest to God! He wasn’t crying because of that. But I hurt him, you know? I did hurt him. I know that now. Somewhere on the inside, I suppose. God, I hate thinking about that. And the odd thing is, he doesn’t even remember. Can you imagine? Because I asked him. One day I just asked him. I wanted to know. It was much later, of course. I mean, we’re talking years later, many years later. He was a grown man. And, I don’t remember when it was, but I just had to ask him because it still bothered me. And so I asked him and he didn’t know what I was talking about. Can you believe that? He didn’t know. I mean, all this time I’d been carrying this around, and now, finally, I wanna talk with him and I ask him if he remembers and so I can say I’m sorry for what I did, because I didn’t mean it, I just lost control for a second, and I wanted at least to apologize. And so I ask him and he doesn’t even remember it.
…?
Well, I wasn’t sad about that. I mean, I’m glad he didn’t remember it. It was a relief, ya know? Maybe it wasn’t a big deal to him after all. Who knows what kids remember? But I’d remembered it, all that time. I still do. Even though I think I should be able to let it go now. I mean, since I know that he doesn’t even remember it and all. I should be able to. I think I can. Let it go, that is.
(Wendy)
…?
Why would you ask that? I mean, why would you ask just a thing?
…
Well, I think it’s a stupid question.
…?
No, I’m not going to answer it. I don’t see that it’s any of your business. Or anybody else’s business, for that matter.
…
I don’t care that you’re not recording names. I just don’t like being asked that question. And certainly not by some stranger.
…?
What? Like some sort of confession? Who the fuck do you think you are, anyway? And even if I did have something to say, why would I want to tell you?
…
You got that right!
…
Whatever.
(Phil)
…?
Seriously?
…
Well, sure. I mean, you might want to make nice and sugarcoat things, but life’s not like that. People get hurt. They hurt you, you hurt them. It’s not all bad. Of course not. Sometimes it’s small stuff. But sometimes it’s not, and you gotta take care of yourself, ‘cause nobody else is gonna take care of you if you don’t do it.
…?
Maybe. But, really, I think it’s about attitude. You know, what’s in your heart at the time. And if you’re okay with it, then it’s probably okay, if you know what I mean.
…?
Well, that’s just the point. You can’t know what’s in other people’s hearts, but you can know what’s in yours. I mean, who else is gonna know?
…?
I don’t think it’s that hard, really. I know some people make a big deal out of it, but I don’t think it’s such a big deal. What’s the big deal? You know what you think. Or at least you should. And then you just gotta follow through. That’s the thing, you see. Consistency. You gotta be consistent. That’s the biggest thing. What’s most important. Too many times, parents, they waver, you know, they say “If you do that again” and all that and then nothing happens, there’s no consequences, so hell, why stop? Or they don’t stick together. You gotta stick together. And you gotta be consistent, that’s what I say. Put your foot down. Both of you, on the same page. Then if they don’t listen, well hell, it’s their own fault, wouldn’t you say? I mean, it’s not like you didn’t give them fair warning. And that’s not a threat. I’m not talking about threats here, for heaven’s sake. That’s just talking honest. Because what you’re really doing is giving them good instruction, that’s what it is. It’s useful instruction, and not the kind they’re gonna learn in school. Because that’s the way the world is and you might as well learn early, I figure, otherwise you’re just gonna have a whole lotta trouble later, you know what I mean?
…?
No. Not really. I don’t think that does any good. It’s done, you go on. It’s like falling down, you pick yourself up. That’s all it is.
…?
Not so much, really. But they’re busy, you know. Everybody’s busy. That’s how life is. You get busy. So, no, not too often. Unfortunately. But that’s okay. I understand. And I don’t think it’s all that unusual. Not nowadays. I think it’s pretty normal, because people have their schedules and they work and their own lives and all that, you know, especially later when you have your own family. Boy oh boy, you’ve got their hands full then! (Pause) So I don’t really blame them, you know. I understand. It’s hard to make time, get away. I get it.
…?
Well, sometimes, I guess. But not too often. Busy, you know. And then I got things going on too, it’s not like I’ve got nothing to do! (Laughs) So sometimes we just don’t connect. Not so often. (Pause) But it’s always nice when we do. (Pause) It’s just not very often.
…?
I suppose. Sure. Who wouldn’t? Yeah, sometimes I try. But I know how busy they are, and I don’t wanna be a bother. I think, sometimes, as a parent, you know, even when they’re older, you just gotta step back. Give ‘em space.
(Sarah)
…?
Well, that’s certainly an odd question.
…?
It just seems rather … personal.
…
No, no. That’s okay. I can answer. It’s just, you know …
…?
Yes, I suppose that would help.
…
Well …
…
I understand that. Still. (Pause) Well, anyway, I guess so. So where do I start?
… …?
(Pause) To tell you the truth, I think I’ve been more on the receiving end. I mean, I’m not saying I’m perfect or anything, nothing like that. I’m sure I have my share of the blame. But still … And I have to say that it’s never been physical, nothing like that. But a broken heart can hurt just as bad as a broken arm! (Laughs) Maybe worse. It takes longer to heal. It takes a long time to heal. And when it happens more than once, well … I’m just not sure you ever recover. I don’t mean to sound melodramatic, but if I’m honest, you just don’t, you know? I mean, you try to forget, but how do you forget that? I mean, how do you forget something like that? You just don’t. And I end up recreating it all over again, the same situation, it seems, even though I don’t mean to. Stupid me! (Laughs) I think, this time I see it clearly, and there’s no way I’m letting that happen to me again, and then … well …
…?
Alone, I guess. (Pause) Alone. (Long Pause)
…?
No, I don’t really like it. I don’t like it. But that’s just the way it is! (Laughs) I try to be nice to people, I really do. I’m kind, and I go out of my way to help, and I’m always there for my friends, but then I just always seem to end up the odd man out. Or woman. I can’t seem to get a man! (Laughs)
…?
No. No, nobody really laughs at that. I shouldn’t either, I suppose! (Laughs) (Pause) Because I’m not laughing, not on the inside. But I make it a joke out of it, you know. You know how it is. You laugh it off, get on with life.
…?
Not so well, actually. (Laughs)
…?
No, nothing like that. My father died when I was young. That was the worst. But that was bad enough. Not like that was his fault, for goodness sake! (Laughs)
…?
Nobody’s. You just deal with it, right? So I know what it’s like to hurt, and so I never want to make other people feel that way, I never want to hurt other people. And I try really hard. And I have a lot of really good friends. But that “special somebody,” well, I haven’t been so lucky in that department, and if I’m honest, that’s what hurts the most. You’d think I’d at least be lucky in cards! (Laughs)
(Scott)
…?
Oh, man. That’s a good one! Look, I don’t mean to be rude or anything, but the question you’re asking, it’s really pretty ridiculous, don’t you think? I mean, who doesn’t? And sure, I don’t feel good about it, when it happens, if it happened, of course I don’t. I wouldn’t. But let me tell you, there are a lot of stupid people out there who walk right into things, they just walk right into it. And no, they’re not asking for it directly, I can understand that, I can appreciate that, but they might as well be, for all the good it does them.
…?
Yeah. Just a lotta stupid sons-a-bitches. They’re everywhere, for Christ’s sake! Take a look around. This isn’t news, ya know. And so shit is gonna to happen to people like that. No reason to shed a tear over that, I say.
…?
Not at all. I don’t go out of my way. But if they’re in my way, well … what can I say? Hey, it’s a dog-eat-dog world, ya know what I’m sayin’? And it’s always gonna be that way. Shit rolls downhill. There’s always gonna be a low man on the totem pole, if you know what I mean. That’s just how it works. Hell, that’s gravity! (Laughs) It’s nature’s way, you might say.
…?
That’s right, nature doesn’t give a shit who gets rained on. You stand in the rain, you get wet. It’s not rocket science. If you’re too stupid to move, well, whose fault is that? Not the weather’s, let me tell ya. And so, yeah, sometimes, yeah, maybe I’m like the weather. I gotta rain, ya know what I mean? I gotta rain, I gotta thunder! (Laughs) That’s nature, man. Good times and bad times. Clear skies and storms. That’s nature. You just gotta go with it. Roll with the punches. (Laughs)
…?
Hey, it is what it is, you know what I’m sayin’? It is what it is. (Laughs)
(Judy)
…?
My goodness. This is going to take a while!
…
Oh, yes. Heavens, yes. How do you avoid it? You can’t.
…?
Both, I’m sure. But I’m not one to dwell on the past. Or point the finger. That’s not going to get us anywhere. But, just looking at myself, I’m certain I’ve committed any number of petty acts that were cruel and hurtful. Children, especially teenagers, are like that. But most of us grow out of that phase.
…?
I’d like to think I have, yes. But … look, we both know better. Big people can be just as petty. Even worse, actually. It’s just disgusting, some of the things people do. And I’m not setting myself apart from the crowd. I do them too, I’m just as guilty.
Well, let me clarify that a bit. I’m not as guilty as some. Some people just seem to thrive on being cruel and hurting others. Isn’t that just awful? I think it’s terrible. It’s disgusting, like I said. But there you have it, that’s people. That’s just the way they are, large and small. They’re often petty and deceitful and mean-spirited. There’s no getting around it. But sometimes it’s really just too much to bear.
…?
Well, we rationalize it, of course. Our own reasons make the most sense to us. So we accept our reasons but don’t accept the reasons of others. Why should we? They’re not as important as our own. I’m joking, of course. Who’s to say what’s important and what’s not? But, ultimately, you’re likely going to end up listening to your own advice. Even when you heed the advice of others, you’re only doing that because in some way you’ve made it into something that makes sense to you. You see what I mean?
…?
I don’t mean to be dodging the issue. It’s just that there are a number of factors involved, too many to ever count, and certainly many more than we could ever understand, even if we just limit them to our own thoughts and actions. And we just have too many blind spots. Psychologists talk about cognitive diss —
…?
Well, I think that does have to do with the topic. Because we’re —
…?
Not at all. Because it’s important that we understand the basis for our feelings and our actions, and to do that we need to establish a framework and a common language.
…?
Hm. Yes, well, perhaps you’re looking for something else. I might not be the best candidate for your purposes.
…?
Yes, I think that would be best.
…
Don’t mention it. You’re welcome. And good luck with … whatever you’re doing.
